It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. Because of the cost difference, weight, compatibility issues, and not dropping free in many platforms, Ill stick with what I know works. The follower I wouldn't think should have witness marks on it though. The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. A friend with a lower that started at 80% also had the same problem as I do and fixed his by shifting his mag catch up 0.050". I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. Elite Aluminum Products although I dont know who made them. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. Could the magazine be too low? /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. You are using an out of date browser. His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. The bolt passes over the cartridge instead of stripping it from the magazine. Posted July 20, 2016 in Shooting Accessories, TFBTV by Alex C. with 210 CommentsTags: I'm the guy at the store with 27 coupons, Magpul, pmag, PMAGs, Tightwad. I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. Scan this QR code to download the app now. i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. UPDATE: After seeing these pictures, I checked my factory mag. I read through the threads dealing with this issue. I'll have to get measurements later. In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. Similar occurences? Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. The main concern is the failure to feed. I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. I just checked and my BM lower does the same. Not up on the 80% stuff myself but we have a thread with lots of different brand bolt catches and the dimensions that may help on that end, please add to it if you have something not listed there. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. Also, PMAGs had trouble fitting in firearms like the British SA-80/L-85, and will not fit in the FN FS-2000 without the user modifying the weapon by removing a component that serves to seal the weapon from dirt and debris. This solution will meet some states permanence requirements. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Thanks shooterrex. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. Copyright © 308AR.com 2023 I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. Next up is damage to the SCAR. There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? Well, there are several reasons for this. If you have something major to change a quick PM to a mod will get it fixed for ya. One new winner* is announced every week! Hope this helps. Clear editor. Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. I deepened the hole to 0.480. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. Loading magazines at home means more shooting time at the range. If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. Your link has been automatically embedded. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. Pasted as rich text. This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. Why not just ditch the PMags? I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. This will severly damage your bolt group over time. When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. All Rights Reserved. The P-mags always functioned. How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. Paste as plain text instead, Mag still wobbles the same and the error still remains. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. Fig. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. It did. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. Re: Magpul PMag issues. Also the follower rides the bolt catch up A LOT. That should fix it. Thanks for the reply. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. Cookie Notice For more information, please see our NEVER attempt to cycle the bolt carrier group (manually or otherwise) or fire a round with the action open (receivers separated), as this may cause serious injury or death AND potentially make your rifle non-compliant with laws and regulations! I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. Could i just have faulty mags? As weird as this will sound, you need to measure the length of your recoil buffer, and the internal depth of your buffer tube and post it here in addition to the excellent info already provided. However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. Fig. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. At the moment just keep posting as usual, the edit feature will become available. I started construction with the lower at 80%. It's a whole lot of details. edit: i just got them. That should tell you what's going on. My fix was with Gen2 pmags. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). i have thermolds, and usgi mags and the rest of them work perfectly.. Scan this QR code to download the app now. I don't and I didn't . honest. You are using an out of date browser. 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). Operation of any AR MAGLOCK products outside the standard method of operation or its original intended use may cause non-compliance to laws / regulations, and injury or death. The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. I'll try and grab my camera. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. Mar 3, 2022. https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=Sig+bolt+catch. JavaScript is disabled. Hey, everyone. Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. View attachment 25288. Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated 8: Bolt Carrier to upper receiver = 0.283. Coil bind on the spring? : "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.". My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. I used a digital caliper depth gauge as shown in the picture. Mick 1 month later. It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. I was curious about how other magazines behaved in the lower so I measured them to simply verify reasonable consistency. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release hole = 0.692. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. . This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. Either the hole gets deeper, or a couple coils come off the spring, or the tail on the plunger gets shortened. Come join the discussion about optics, modifications, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. TSiWRX. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. Some rifles are just finicky. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Insert the steel DPMS mag and lock the bolt back and look through the ejection port and note how much of the bolt face the bolt catch covers. and might have several still in the packaging. Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. #5. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. This is one of my pistols. Its best to identify these two common issues with your rifle, before attempting to diagnose problems with your magazines. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. JavaScript is disabled. Also, since the follower rides too high the pmags I used made a dent in the follower from the bolt. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. I suspect yours will be higher than mine. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . The mag doesn't need to come up so far as to cause this condition but the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. NEVER use this product outside the standard method of operation as it will cause the rifle to no longer be in compliance and you risk arrest. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. The Fix: 1.) Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more forward in the mag body, and the end of the catch tab is not lifted upwards to active the catch. It was initially 0.323 deep. By Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. I dont have another LR-308 with which to compare my measurements so I dont know which dimensions are problematic. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. That one issue, right there, because in the previous pics, that bolt catch isn't sticking up enough to reliably get that bolt face every time. Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. check out the. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. Your previous content has been restored. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. Like you hear military folk say, Ounces equal pounds. And in the case of the PMAG, a full loadout saves the user a bit of weight. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. (not my lower, but my exact problem!) the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. You must log in or register to reply here. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. It was initially 0.323 deep. Try tightening the mag catch an extra turn. What changed? You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Suggestions? Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. I have both just to keep ammo separated. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Seamac, did you have to modify the black polymer on the mag? So far so good. Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The issue is with bolt lock back. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. This clearance is partially determined by the use of aLuth-AR .308 rifle buffer tube, spring, and weight [https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/]. No need to answer that last question.
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