. But you areis this part of the film true, where you have the authorities come in and say, Were questioning everyone, because someone here did this.. Katharine Gun is the Most Important Whistleblower You've Never Heard of. Its all so resonant. And Im saying, Ben, but how did you know, when you called for those documents, that theyd be there? And theres this pause. KATHARINE GUN: Need I say more? I was teaching Mandarin in the local college in Cheltenham. Young, in love, with a beautiful toddler and a baby on the way, Mary Katharine expected her husband of four years, Jake Brewer, to return from cycling in a charity event. And he was the barrister who ultimately put the case before the court, as short as that trial was, on behalf of Katharine, and came up with a truly original defense to the Official Secrets Act, which is the defense of necessity. Gun was outraged after she learned - as part of her job with GCHQ - that the United States wanted . Certain friends did not want to see me any more, or be seen with me some people get very paranoid. We will never know. And you had a showing in San Francisco. She said, you know, its ironic that here we are in the age when women now have the vote, and theyre supposed to beand were all supposed to be equal, and yet so many roles are still about women being the sidekick, women being raped, so much violence, use ityou know, a woman whos in jeopardy. AMY GOODMAN: Who is played in the film by? Your defense becomes: It was necessary to break the law in order to achieve a higher purpose, which is the saving of human life. Nobody knows if whistleblowing is nurture or nature. AMY GOODMAN: You only lasted what? Her act of whistleblowing cost her a career as a translator at the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), made her stand in a highly publicized trial for violating the Official Secrets Act, and reduced her chances of getting another job due to being an internationally recognized whistleblower. Lord Goldsmith must have saidI mean, I imagine. So, they immediatelywell, first of all, my manager said, What would you like to do? And I said, Well, pfff, what can I do? You know, we have to tell internal security. KATHARINE GUN: to police custody, yes, and kept overnight in a police cell. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. With no life insurance and unpaid maternity leave on the horizon, Mary Katharine forged ahead with a singular conviction. And I went back, and I felt worse that day at home. MARTIN BRIGHT: No, it was the Tony Blair Faith Foundation. When do you first meet, you, the person who exposed this story, Martin Bright, and Katharine Gun? Im Amy Goodman, as we bring you Part 2 of our extended look at a new film thats out called Official Secrets, thats coming out at the end of August, that tells the story of a British intelligence specialist, Katharine Gun, who risked everything to blow the whistle on U.S. dirty tricks at the United Nations in the lead-up to the Iraq invasion in 2003. I think its important for people to find that truth and follow through on it, Gun opined, and its certainly worth remembering. So I really didnt want any of that to be scrutinized because it just felt too vulnerable, stated Gun, on why she chose to retreat from the limelight once the dust had settled. So, lots of leads there. ED VULLIAMY: Yes, the people who were giving Martin traction to get this story out, and who effectively, according to Mr. Daviess book, censored mine, about the cooking-up of the WMD and the fact that we knew Saddam didnt have any. I'm Amy Goodman. He didnt know I had leaked this memo. When Gun was approached with the idea for a script by Gavin Hood (who had recently made Eye in the Sky, the film about drone warfare, with Helen Mirren), the pair of them first talked for five days in London, getting the story straight. March 29, 2023 Posted by is vimto squash good for you; She has a younger brother who teaches in Taiwan. But then I thought, Well, no, I just cant go on calling in sick. So I went in, and my manager said, you know, Katharine, you look dreadful. ED VULLIAMY: Its a story of endeavor, to no avail. That whole period undermined the judicial process, it undermined the parliamentary process, and it undermined the media and press and the intelligence service. We are all of us living, she believes, with the consequences of that. How often does she go through that fateful weekend, where she wrestled with her conscience after seeing the memo? And Jed called me up and said, Have you heard of Katharine Gun? And you get this moment where you feel like you should have, because of the way hes saying it. 4 4.Katharine Gun: Ten years on what happened to the woman who 5 5.Iraq War Whistle Blower Katharine Gun Shares Her Story | Video - PBS; 6 6.GCHQ whistleblower Katharine Gun speaks out | Daily Mail Online; 7 7.15 Years Later: How U.K. Whistleblower Katharine Gun - YouTube; 8 8.Katharine Gun & Martin Bright Interview - Official . AMY GOODMAN: Ed Vulliamy, you were the U.S. correspondent for The Observer. KATHARINE GUN: Well, I mean, its terrifying. You hardly told anybody what you had done. Look at those bombs falling on Baghdad. And she hadnt said why she had resigned. I took up teaching. Therefore, it is not surprising that Gun chose to move away from the center point of all the chaos once it died down. I think of journalists as being bullet-proof in a way, she says, but obviously not., She and Bright have done several question and answer sessions in the US after the film has been screened at various festivals. A film, Official Secrets, has been made of her story. [5] Gun heard no more of the email, and had all but forgotten about it until Sunday 2 March, when she saw it reproduced on the front page of The Observer newspaper. I mean, my initial encounter with him at the Faith Foundation was extremely concerning, in fact, because he said that what he wanted me to do was develop a heat map, you know, an interactive map of all the madrassas, you know, Islamic schools, around the world, with my tiny team of two or three interns, showingand he looked me in the eye, and he said, I want you to be ableI want people who are looking on our website to be able to see how radical those madrassas are, by color coding.. ED VULLIAMY: Thank you. Her story, which reveals what a country will do when it wants war and claims it does not, is told in an updated book and a major motion picture soon to be released Official . Read More: Is Official Secrets a True Story? Explain what happened at the Q&A, Martin. How did she go about rebuilding her life? MARTIN BRIGHT: I mean, there are a series of questions of accountability here. In 2003, she leaked top-secret information to The Observer, concerning a request by the United States for compromising intelligence on diplomats from member states of the 2003 Security Council.The diplomats were due to vote on a second United . Our Daily Digest brings Democracy Now! I ended up, bizarrely, teaching a couple of my former colleagues at GCHQ. Following the dropping of the case, Liberty commented, "One wonders whether disclosure in this criminal trial might have been a little too embarrassing. In this episode of Schenck Talks Bonhoeffer, TDBI Founder and President, Rev. Hood uses chemistry among each character to bring them to life. You didnt have that kind of support. First day, what did you feel? I met her in August in Durham, when she was on a brief visit to see her father. They said, Plead out., AMY GOODMAN: We dont want you to go to jail for years. In January that year, Katharine Gun was copied into a classified memo sent to GCHQ by a senior figure in the NSA, its US equivalent. MARTIN BRIGHT: We didI tell you what, though, we did feel that we had failed. ED VULLIAMY: Yes. I wonder what she made of the scattershot download methods of Edward Snowden and Julian Assange? To see Part 1 of our discussion, go to democracynow.org. She was 27. There are lots of loose ends here still. Much of the news desk was opposed. The law requires you to. And Mr. Ahmed is now the editorial director of the BBC, the revered BBC. And so, I immediately went home, and Iand at the time, actually, well, my dad was staying with me, because it was Chinese New Year, and he was back from Taiwan, and he was supporting me, so he was at home. But, I mean, I ended up being a whistleblower myself within that organization. As soon as I opened the door and he saw me coming in, and he could see something was wrong, and thenand I said, Theyve taken him. And he went, The bastards! So, anyway, I was on the phone. There is a sense of, Did it really happen? Is that really me?. Katharine Gun, a shy and studious 28-year-old who spent her days listening in to obscure Chinese intercepts, decided to tell the world about a secret plan by the US government to spy on the United Nations.. She had received an email in her inbox asking her and . White bread, white Trump, white, or this America, the one of every color, creed? You know, we dont have that. So, of course, I was a little bit sort of reserved. The legal case against Gun was eventually dropped by the British government in 2004, after her lawyer, Ben Emmerson QC (played in the film with fabulous charisma by Ralph Fiennes), threatened to use disclosure to put the legal basis of the war itself on trial. Woman who tried to stop a war. It cost Gun, who now lives in Turkey with her husband and daughter, her job. And my husband was desperately worried about what was going on. [5] In 1993 she began studying Japanese and Chinese at Durham University. We didnt talk about politics much. delivered to your inbox every day! AMY GOODMAN: Were you actually in the car with him, waiting for him to go in for his check-in? Gun splits her time between Turkey and Britain. What was he telling Blair until the 11th hour, where he changed his mind, it seems, at the 11th hour, and said, 'Oh, well, you can justify on the basis of Resolution 678 from 1991,' this fringe idea that no decent international lawyerand Im an ex-lawyerbelieves to be even remotely sensible?. AMY GOODMAN: And Alton went from The Observer and ultimately made his way, ED VULLIAMY: Via variousvia Rupert Murdochs Times, yes. Gun was asked by Special Branch officers why she had chosen to act as she had. Its the intelligence agency, like the NSA, the National Security Agency, in the U.S. She leaked a memo revealing that the United States was collaborating with Britain in collecting sensitive information on United Nations Security Council members, countries, in order to pressure the members, the ambassadors, into supporting the Iraq invasion of March 2003. Ed Vulliamys character, played by Rhys Ifans in the film, says, you know, he effing caved at the time when his country needed him most. "[5], Gun's regular job at GCHQ in Cheltenham was to translate Mandarin Chinese into English. AMY GOODMAN: The networks, like Fox, and The Drudge Report, CNN refused to interview you, saying that this couldnt be a real memo because, unfortunately, your newspaper translated it into British. AMY GOODMAN: And what did you tell Katharine at that time? So, was that Frank Koza? The Observer published the dirty tricks memo as a front-page splash just over two weeks before the invasion. Official Secrets is based on the actions of Brit Katharine Gun, who revealed that America had been eavesdropping on diplomats from other countries. GAVIN HOOD: This amazing lawyer, with great dignityElizabeth Wilmshurst, whos in the movie, Ralph Fiennes playing Ben Emmersonhas the cup of tea with her. But I felt this information was explosive, it needed to get out. I mean, couldnt have been happier with the casting choice, because Ben Emmerson is a force of nature, absolute force of nature, and a great international lawyer. AMY GOODMAN: So then you have Scotland Yard taking over. Get Democracy Now! Was she immediately frightened of the consequences? You have the U.S. in the longest war in U.S. history, in Afghanistan. Gun has spoken at the 51Fest and conferences arranged by organizations such as the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS). It is loud, clear, confident, creative, interesting. You were just waiting. For example, youre racing to the hospital with your wife. AMY GOODMAN: Youre watching that on television. Dr. They knew the difference between truth, lies and propaganda. I had, you know, encounters with Blair. Macdonald stated that Gun would not have received a fair trial without the disclosure of information that would have compromised national security. And so, we talked about motherhood and all sorts of things, but I was just so impressed with how intelligent she was and how incisive she was in getting to the crux of the matter. We know this because Katharine Gun leaked a short 300-word NSA memo on this shortly before the invasion. Your question about now, this is all terribly relevant. The people who went in and smashed it up in 2003, do they watch the news? Ahead of a new film, Official Secrets, the GCHQ worker who tried to prevent the 2003 invasion of Iraq recalls those feverish days and their consequences Keira Knightley on playing whistleblower Katharine Gun: Iraq was the first time Id been politically engaged. But on the other hand, its just a deeply personal story aboutand I hope Katharine will forgive me saying thisabout an ordinary person, like one of us, who does something extraordinary. Gavin Hoods 2019 film Official Secrets is the thrilling political drama that explores the events that followed British linguist Guns 2003 media leak. GAVIN HOOD: She did work for the attorney general, right up until a matter of weeks or so before the war, at which point, when he changed his mind, under massive pressure, having visited Washington and spoken to Gonzales and all the various lawyers who worked for Rumsfeld and Bush and Cheney, and theyd sold him on this idea of using Resolution 678, which authorized the 1991 Gulf War, and said, Really, that war didnt end, and were really still at war with Iraq. If we found other information, it may have been different, but this information seemed to show us that wed been lied to. Katharine Gun was a young specialist working for Britains Government Communications Headquarters when she exposed a highly confidential memo that revealed the United States was working with the United Kingdom to collect sensitive information on United Nations Security Council members in order to pressure them into supporting the Iraq invasion. I work for the British people. It was with the help of MP Nigel Jones that Gun finally managed to free Yasar, reasserting his right to stay in the UK. AMY GOODMAN: So, the Daily Mail, very sympathetic also to President Trump. Shes out. Protesters against the invasion of Iraq, February 2003. Don't let 'the intelligence and the facts be fixed around the policy' this time. AMY GOODMAN: And these ambassadors are the ambassadors of? I mean, this has been going on for a number of years, and it always sort of ended up kind of petering out, so, GAVIN HOOD: Other people had approached you before. I had made a film called Eye in the Sky, with the producer Ged Doherty, and we were looking for another project to do together. I watched you last night at one of the premieres of the film, a kind of secret showing of Official Secrets. Its incredibly daunting, you know. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. UPDATED with latest attendees, livestream link: President Joe Biden and First Lady Jill Biden, as well as Vice President Kamala Harris and Second Gentleman Doug Emhoff, will attend Saturday's . Katharine Teresa Gun (ne Harwood; born 1974) is a British linguist who worked as a translator for the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ). KATHARINE GUN: Actually, time-wise, I was bailed for eight months. [20] After the charges against her were dropped in 2004, she found it difficult to find a new job. Mary Katherine Higdon of Griffin, Georgia, was arrested for the murder of her live-in boyfriend, Steven Freeman. One question that recurs, she says, comes from audience members asking what they should do, how they should behave, in the current mendacious political climate. This is a rush transcript. The Observer team in a scene from the film, with Matt Smith, front, as home affairs editor Martin Bright. Some people have very low tolerance of wrongdoing, whether it is fiddling expenses, or whatever. Sometimes you break stories, and networks ring you and say they want to interview you, and then they drop you because of the agenda. It was very difficult initially. They called for your documents. KATHARINE GUN: Yeah. The relationships that form as a result of Gun's acting are quite inspiring. One foundered for lack of funds, another strayed further from the truth than she would have liked. Youre the guy who got the goods on the author of the memo in the NSA, who wrote to GCHQ and said, Were going to bug the U.N. ambassadors.. So. Rob Schenck, introduces newly named Senior Fellow Dr. Joel Looper and his new book, Bonhoeffer's America: A Land without Reformation. And the situation, the toxic abomination of Brexit in our country, has sort of rehabilitated Blair in a sort of bizarre way. I was very exercised about what was happening. Oh, yeah. Her father had studied Chinese at Durham University and now teaches at Tunghai University in the city of Taichung, central Taiwan. AMY GOODMAN: But so, did you have any conversations with the former prime minister at the time, Tony Blair? Indeed, your point about Bush is right. What's more, her decision and movement to expose lies about the Iraq invasion made it be titled as the courageous and vital leak as per Democracy Now. And they say, Were not even going to vote on this resolution. And the next day, we invade. AMY GOODMAN: That was 2014. When he didnt come out, I was panicking, you know, and I ran inside. So, from a dramatic point of view, you have someone whos just going to their job every day, as most of us do, happens to be a spy working for GCHQ, but could have been a person working for an accounting firm or Enron or Boeing or any other organization, who sees something that is simply wrong, sees, you know, and says, GAVIN HOOD: and says, Im going to speak up.. AMY GOODMAN: Shes then arrested. Gun had given a copy of the memo, with no supporting verification, to a friend of a friend who eventually brought it to the Observers investigative reporter Martin Bright. The memo was a top-secret request to monitor the private communication of UN delegates for scraps of information, personal or otherwise, that could be used to give the US an edge in leveraging support for the invasion. Gun is a singular presence, and she answers with characteristic care, speaking slightly haltingly, weighing her words. I thought you said youre sick. And I said, I need to talk to you. And so we went into a small room, and I just said, I did it. And then she put her arm around me and went, Oh, Katharine. And then I burst out crying. I ask her first if it is gratifying to finally have it out there? We are defending ourselves. And she said, Gavin, I dont want to wear makeup. Ellsberg has called Katharine Guns action the most important and courageous leak I have ever seen. GAVIN HOOD: Well, for me, what I love about the story is actually, on the one hand, its got this huge global political relevance, and it resonates still today. However, Yasar could not be there for her trial as Gun, and her associates worried that his presence would turn Guns story into that of his as a refugee in Britain. Martin Bright and Ben Emmerson stick by Kathrine the whole time . AMY GOODMAN: So, before the time of the trial, Katharine, youthey have clamped down on you. AMY GOODMAN: What was it called? And then, on Tuesday, they called me in, and I went in. You know, we had it in October 2002. [21], Gun received the Sam Adams Award for 2003 and was supported in her case by the UK human rights pressure group Liberty and in the US by the Institute for Public Accuracy. Now, what we were doing when we were breaking this story was we were attempting to show that our governments had lied to us. I hope when shes ready for this story, she will [see the film]. Ralph Fiennes, fantastic, wonderful actor. The legal case against Gun was eventually dropped by the British government in 2004, after her lawyer, Ben Emmerson QC (played in the film with fabulous charisma by Ralph Fiennes), threatened to use disclosure to put the legal basis of the war itself on trial. Timpf, 32, and Friscia, 34, tied the knot . Authorities had attempted to deport Yasar back to the Middle East. AMY GOODMAN: And then what happened? AMY GOODMAN: And the U.S. is still in Iraq. The difference, I think, is that hereand your program and your viewers are testimony to thisyou have an opposition. GAVIN HOOD: Almost a million. Zooey Zephyr, Montanas First Trans Lawmaker, Speaks Out After Being Banned & Silenced by Republicans, Rising Tide of Fascism: Tennessee Rep. Justin Jones Warns of GOPs Growing Embrace of Authoritarianism, Courage Is Contagious: Zooey Zephyr & Justin Jones on the GOPs Silencing of State Lawmakers, Provocative & Dangerous: Biden to Send Nuclear-Armed Subs to South Korea as Activists Demand Peace, Oklahoma Parole Board Denies Clemency for Richard Glossip, Rejecting Plea from State Attorney General. " Gun tails off, as if embarrassed to make too grand a claim for herself. The author advocates anonymity. The official editorial line, led by the then editor Roger Alton (now an executive editor at the Daily Mail) and political editor Kamal Ahmed (now editorial director of BBC News) was in close support of the Blair governments position on the invasion. We could haveyou know, you always have regrets, dont you? ", "US plan to bug Security Council: the text", "Let's free the Official Secrets Act from its cold war freeze | Alex Bailin", "Leaking or briefing? AMY GOODMAN: And so, what did you do when they said, Were going to take each one of you into a room.. Whistleblower Katherine Gun, right, is played by Keira Knightly in the movie Official Secrets. [12] At the time, the reasons for the Attorney-General to drop the case were murky. Given my experience I would want to hear what happened from the horses mouth, I think.. (modern). And after about three weeks of this meeting these extraordinary people, I said to Jed, I think I think I would like to do this. And thats where the story came from. And yeah, it was, AMY GOODMAN: And what did you think, whenbefore you had seen Katharine and met her, what did you imagine she would be like, this young woman, 27-year-old woman of conscience, who. As well as illuminating Guns story, though, the film gives what was, by any standards, one of the great scoops of recent British journalism the credit that is long overdue. I felt that I had done the morally right thing to do. ED VULLIAMY: But my point is not against Mr. Ahmed. It is not often that a persons character is revealed in two sentences. [6] Gun had previously been unaware of GCHQ, later saying that "I didn't have much idea about what they didI was going into it pretty much blind. Gun thinks she might speak out more considering the current state of political affairs and massive citizen involvement in sociopolitical issues. Theres no doubt. So, of course, it was justyou know, he was kind of thinkinghe knew I worked for the intelligence services, but he didnt know what that was. Considering the support it has received from its central character and the journalist who helped get the story published, 'Official Secrets' is an accurate dive into the events that happened. [5] Less than a week after the Observer story, on Wednesday 5 March, Gun confessed to her line manager at GCHQ that she had leaked the email, and was arrested. I think. MARTIN BRIGHT: OK, youre making me feel really bad about going to work for him now. I mention those lines about working for the people rather than the government. AMY GOODMAN: I mean, youre the guy who broke the story that showed that Britain was collaborating with the U.S. in trying to get dirt on U.S. ambassadors, AMY GOODMAN: to get them to vote for the war in Iraq, which ended up killingwhat do you say at the end of the film? Before I was charged, before my name came out, my biggest worry was that I would become a known person. delivered to your inbox every day! Its millions. Almost a million Iraqis. Shes pregnant. It wasn't that she was naive . AMY GOODMAN: But what caused you to say no? With me, it was this. ED VULLIAMY: Yes. Does she think that was a unique belief among colleagues at GCHQ? As Coordinator for Shalom Mission Communities, a peace church fellowship near the southern border, Joel, his wife, Anali, and their new baby girl, Daniela Bea, are actively helping . Before I knew it, I had spent two hours researching Katharine. We thought maybe it would be some crusty old senior guy from a rival agency. Gun had, of course, been forced to abandon her career in the civil service and finally, struggling for work, left Britain altogether. The Case Against Mary Katherine Higdon 43:11. And I called Jed back, and I said, This is an amazing way into how we got into the Iraq War, thatwhy isnt it better known? And he saidI said, Could I come and meet Katharine? MARTIN BRIGHT: I have an abiding interest in the link between religion and conflict. I think the number isand forgive me, I should have the figurethree-and-a-half thousand British and American soldiers, 37,000 wounded. No need to prove anything further. In a way, President Trump has been a gift for the previous president, George W. Bush, because it has really rehabilitated his reputation. So, no, I mean, I didnt want to say I was guilty when I didnt feel guilty. KATHARINE GUN: And yeah, becauseanyway, he was going in every week to basically prove that he was still resident or that they could pinpoint where he was. The film, Official Secrets, comes out officially at the end of August. I could not get it in. [16], Her husband, Yaar Gn,[17][18] is a Turkish Kurd. Katharine Gun (ne Harwood), 47, is married to Yasar Gn, a Turkish Kurd, with whom she has a 13-year old daughter. But anyway. I would love to know. We do not accept funding from advertising, underwriting or government agencies. AMY GOODMAN: How rarely a woman actress, an actor, gets to play, you know, the protagonist, the solid, strong hero, Gavin. And that mattered, because, for all their faults, it seems to me that Tony Blair and George Bush understood that if they were caught out in a lie, that was a problem for them. I wasno, as soon as he didnt come out, I. I mean, I think we did feel that we journalisticallyyou know, we could have done more as a newspaper. And the memo was like this big red flag as soon as I saw it.. Although Katharine Gun returned to the public eye in 2019 for the promotional press events for Official Secrets, she has largely retreated from the medias gaze since. But it was, yeah, a moment of great humility, actually. And I had to thank her forI mean, you know, in totally selfish terms, helping me break the biggest story of my life.
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